rec.arts.movies.past-films

"Harkness" wrote in message
news: @ ...
> On Oct 7, 3:30 pm, "Stone me" wrote:
>> "william" wrote in message
>>
>> news: @ ...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 7, 2:06 pm, "Stone me" wrote:
>>
>> >> > Noir, despite its Frenchified name, is a truly American form<
>>
>> >> This boils down to a name and it's definition.
>> >> I think it fair to talk of American or Hollywood Noir.
>> >> French Noir is also a useful description.
>> >> "Noir" on it's own must refer to the whole.
>> >> I judge the above as the lazy use of language.
>>
>> > While generally I agree with you, some of the specifics confuse me.
>> > Noir is noir and what ain't ain't. Where would your definition leave
>> > Visconti's "Ossessione"?
>>
>> > William
>> >
>>
>> For the purpose of my last post, it does not matter if a film cannot fit
>> exactly into one definition or another. Cross cultural influences exist,
>> and we acknowledge it.
>> I just object to the French word being hijacked in the way it was. My
>> solution is either to use more words to specify sub strains or to
>> invent new ones.
>> That's as far as I can go.
>>
>> Stone me.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> hijacked?
>
> It was the French who came up with the title and used it do describe
> American films. (the so-called French noir -- I assume you're talking
> about the Carne-Prevert-Renoir popular front stuff -- Port of Shadows
> and Gare du Nord and Le Crime De M. Lange -- already had a name,
> Poetic Realism)
>
> John Harkness
>
I have a feeling that you may be wrong, but I am not going there:-)
For the purpose of my posts, I suggest new names upon which there
is no ambiguity. Noir being a French word, and if used to define an
American mode, separate from French films which have a strong
link, may be ok for you, but for me I prefer more clarity.

The whole definition is a quagmire anyway.
Everyone seems to have their own view.

btw does a "Noir" film have to have a "femme fatale"?
Does it have to have extreme angular shots, single point
lighting, and the plot being a melodrama about the
criminal underworld?
Who can say for sure?

Stone me.